Kieninger & obergfell

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Kieninger&Obergfell Square Electronic Clock at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products! ... Kieninger&Ober gfell Square Electronic Clock . evehop_92 (107) 98.5% positive; Seller's other items Seller's other items; Contact seller; US $69.99. …

Did you know that there’s an easy way to measure amps? It’s true! Gone are the days of analog and digital multimeters, instruments that come Expert Advice On Improving Your Home ...Kieninger & Obergfell Kundo Electronic Mantle Clock. Brittany's Collectibles. (1628) 98.1% positive. Seller's other items. Contact seller. US $125.00. Best offer accepted. or Best Offer.Vintage Kieninger & Obergfell Kundo Electromagnetic Mantle Clock 4 3/8" Wide, See Description for condition UniqueAntiquesBusco 4.5 out of 5 stars 4.7 Arrives soon! Get it by Mar 7-11 if you order today. Mar 7-11 Your order should arrive by this date if you buy today. To calculate an ...Within LMT Tools, LMT Kieninger is the specialist for especially complex cutting operations. They develop and produce customized tool systems and tools for die and mould making. Contact: LMT Kieninger GmbH & Co. KG. Vogesenstr. 23. 77933 Lahr. Germany. T +49 7821 943-0.Apr 22, 2024 · Kieninger movement decoding. An older Kieninger clock movement will have the date first, then the series "SK or SKS" and the CM length on the back plate of the movement. Such as 83 SKS 116CM. However the first number on in the later years was no longer a date code and more of an internal code for the factory. Movement removal and installation Kieninger Gesellschaft. 709 likes. Hoch- und Tiefbauarbeiten, Sanierung sowie Zimmerei und Einzelhandel mit Baustoffen Kieninger & Obergfell (Kundo) 400-day clock with "diamond" face (IMG_5919) Done

Kundo is a combined form of Kieninger and Obergfell. The company exists to this day as Kieninger a subsidiary of Howard Miller. This particular clock is a good example of a typical anniversary clock of the period. There are signs of wear as one might expect, dents on the base where an unrestrained pendulum did its damage and a …Kundo or Kieninger & Obergfell. Product Name: Kundo or Kieninger & Obergfell - Antique Dutch Clock Parts. Product Description: Our archives of Kundo or Kieninger & Obergfell products showcasing what we have to offer. Product Rating. 5. Buyer. Best Seller ever Fast delivery Very Professional 5 Star *************. Kieninger Curio Floor-Mantel Clock II. Sale Price: $10,487.00. List Price: $14,981.00. Low Price Guarantee. More Info. Kieninger Grandfather Clocks are worth the wait with their exquisite designs and superb quality. See for yourself. With signs of use and damage to the varnish. There are traces of grinding on the aluminium dial. Material: brass, aluminium. Upper diameter: ca. 17 cm. Lower diameter: approx. 20 cm. Kriegsmarine bulkhead clock with original black paint by Kieninger & Obergfell from 2nd World War. Hard to find example of a ship's clock by Kieninger & Obergfell ...Kundo is a combined form of Kieninger and Obergfell. The company exists to this day as Kieninger a subsidiary of Howard Miller. This particular clock is a good example of a typical anniversary clock of the period. There are signs of wear as one might expect, dents on the base where an unrestrained pendulum did its damage and a …Kieninger & Obergfell clocks are available for sale on 1stDibs. These distinctive items are frequently made of metal and are designed with extraordinary care. There are many options to choose from in our collection of Kieninger & Obergfell clocks, although brown editions of this piece are particularly popular.

Apr 7, 2020 ... Kieninger & Obergfell Kundo Electronic Clock 6 Jewels Made In W.Germany - Vọc Sửa Đồng Hồ Cổ Của Đức · Comments13.VINTAGE KUNDO KIENINGER & OBERGFELL Anniversary Clock With Key (Needs Adjusted) Opens in a new window or tab. Pre-Owned. $89.95. b7b777 (1,788) 100%. or Best Offer +$43.95 shipping. New Listing Vintage Kundo 400 Day Anniversary Clock WORKING, No Dome. Opens in a new window or tab. Pre-Owned. $40.00. Clock Suspension Springs For Hermle Kieninger Grandfather Clocks, Guaranteed. $30.00. $3.50 shipping. Only 1 left! Kieninger clock movement 05 J, Charles Sligh Clock Movement, 43cm. Used as parts. $75.00. $24.94 shipping. You are bidding on a Rare WORKING 1960s Kieninger & Obergfell Impulse Kundo Electronic Carriage / Mantle Clock Made in West Germany. It is rare to find this clock in working and keeping good time. I rebuilt the battery (using 3 new AA batteries) and fabricted one of the feet which was missing (see pics).Condition (see pictures):This clock …The reliability and quality of the products led to a an increase in demand for Kieninger clocks and by January 1913, the company employed 18 workers. Very quickly the premises in …

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KIENINGER | MURAKI CLOCK GALLERY. 最も高い品質とユニークな設計をされたモデル「キニンガー Kieninger」. キニンガーは1912年の誕生以来、メカニカルクロックの先駆者として毎年、様々な魅力あるコレクションを世界に発信しています。. 1991年に新たに構成された4万 ... Kieninger, Aldingen. 364 likes · 47 talking about this · 6 were here. The Kieninger Clock Factory was founded in 1912 in the Black Forest and is the eldest existing manuf Kieninger Luxusuhren. iBizz GmbH. Averdiekstraße 28. 49078 Osnabrück. Tel: 0541 - 8004967. Fax: 0541 - 80049682. [email protected]. [email protected]. Kieninger Luxusuhren - Wanduhren von Kieninger online schnell und sicher bestellen. Kieninger clocks Overview. Click here to go to the store. Floor clocks. Wall clocks. Table clocks. Contact. KUMA GmbH Brunnenstraße 37 D-78554 Aldingen. Prices for Kieninger & Obergfell furniture can differ depending upon size, time period and other attributes — on 1stDibs, these items begin at £1,190 and can go as high as £7,630, while a piece like these, on average, fetch £4,410. Creators Similar …

PS Series Kieninger clock movement. The PS Series Kieninger Clock Movement is a cable driven, two weight movement. They come in either gong strike with one hammer, or bim bam strike with three hammers. Hand Shaft measuring. The hand shaft measurement is from the front plate of the movement all the way out.Kundo is a popular name in anniversary clocks and the name is a combined form of Kieninger and Obergfell, a well-respected German company. The company exists to this day as Kieninger, a subsidiary of Howard Miller USA. Dial face Kundo Clock. Servicing a 400-day clock. To service a 400-day clock you must have the Horolovar 400 …Feb 20, 2014 · I purchased this clock today from a junk store. After a bit of internet searching I was able to determine that it is a Kieninger & Obergfell (KUNDO) clock, with the 70mm x 92mm, eccentric nut adjuster Anniversary Clock Movement (sorry about the weird font, it's copy and paste.) What struck me as odd is the fact that the only marking is the KO ... DIAL MOON ARCH KIENINGER CALENDAR FANCY Solid brass heavy Kieninger calendar dial. Silver moon dial. Gold-Brass chapter ring with gold roman numerals. 2nd hand ring and minute ring. Selectors: Right - Whitt, St. Mich, Westm, Silent...(RTTNews) - The following are some of the stocks making big moves in Friday's pre-market trading (as of 07.25 A.M. ET). In the Green Clever Leav... (RTTNews) - The following are ...Kriegsmarine bulk head clock made by Kieninger & Obergfell. The clock with brass case, hinged front with screwed front glass. The silvered clock dial with black numbers, eagle & swastika 'M'. This clock has a red … 9-Tubular Bell Kieninger Clock Movement. The 9-Tubular Movement is known as the HTU. This is the only 9 tube that Kieninger made. So there will be no confusion on getting the right one. 9-Tubular Bell Kieninger Clock Movement comes with. This high quality German Kieninger movement comes from the factory with oil in key wear areas. Kieninger Clock Moon Gear. Moon gear for Kieninger mechanical clock movements. This is the gear the spins the phase of the moon function on a lunar dial. It is the only interaction from the movement to the dial to make the dial lunar disk to spin. Installed on the same tube as the hour hand and secured with a set screw only.Kieninger was founded in 1912 by Joseph Kieninger in the Black Forest, making it the oldest existing manufacturer of mechanical movements for grandfather, wall and table clocks in the world. Since 1917, the company has been located in Aldingen, a charming community between the Black Forest and the Swabian Alb.

KIENINGER & OBERGFELL navy-wall clock No. 12302, Germany around 1940, round stepped brass case dent, chrome-plated, glazed hinge bezel, silvered dial patinated/spotty with military engraving, Arabic n. See Sold Price. Sold. 2018. VINTAGE KUNDO KIENINGER OBERGFELL MANTEL CLOCK.

Certified Kieninger online shop - Convincing services for your purchase. In 2012, the Kieninger watch factory celebrates its 100th anniversary. Kieninger was founded in 1912 by Joseph Kieninger in the Black Forest, making it the oldest existing manufacturer of mechanical movements for grandfather, wall and table clocks in the world.Oct 16, 2007 · Howard Miller Clocks went out and bought Hermle’s leading – and really one and only remaining competitor to Hermle Clocks (for clock movements) in the world – then the ONLY OTHER very high-end semi-mass manufacturer of movements for mechanical clocks, Kieninger Clocks, which was much smaller than Hermle at the time. In our view, with some ... 1/4 cable/spring-wound pendulum movement with Westminster chime on 8-rod gong, running time 7 days, plate dimensions 131 x 131 x 2.0 mm, 4 Aeterna bronze bouchons (accessory wheels for chiming movements), pallet lever with resting escapement (Graham) and automatic lever, safety winding stop (chiming movements), seconds display, chime cut-off ...Kieninger Uhrwerke erfüllen höchste Ansprüche und bestechen durch ein hohes Maß an Verarbeitungsqualität und Zuverlässigkeit. Modernste Technik in Verbindung mit ausgewählten, hochwertigen Materialien und der Erfahrung von nunmehr einem Jahrhundert im Bau von mechanischen Uhrwerken bieten Ihnen diese Gewähr.Vtg Kieninger & Obergfell Kundo Electronic Carriage Pendulum Clock West Germany a d vertisement b y GhTos Ad vertisement from shop GhTos GhTos From shop GhTos. AU$ 127.27. Add to Favourites 400 days well working clock 1950s-1960s BUK, clock's manufacturer is Kieninger & Obergfell 3.0 (16) · a d vertisement b ...Kundo Kieninger & Obergfell Anniversary Clock With Dome Germany NOT WORKING! (186) $ 115.00. Add to Favorites Vintage Mid Century style brass Zodiac clock Dugena made in Germany 80s (314) Sale Price …Kieninger Clocks is one of the world's oldest clockmakers founded in Germany over 100 years ago. Kieninger Clocks still manufactures their own movements and parts. 1-800-4CLOCKS is the place to buy Kieninger clocks! See our 5 Red Boxes. We are Kieninger Clock experts. Refine Listings.

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Manufactured by Keininger & Obergfell in West Germany in 1958. This clock comes with the original glass and winding key. These clocks will run for 400-days ... Kieninger impressive floor clock exclusive walnut case 3 chimes 12 rod-gong 0117-82-01. from 9.050,00 EUR. Exclusive Kieninger Walnut Longcase Clock with Silver-plated Calendar Dial. from 8.815,00 EUR. Kieninger floor clock representative oak moon dial 3 chime son 12-rod gong 0128-11-01. from 5.280,00 EUR. Kieninger was founded in 1912 by Joseph Kieninger in the Black Forest, making it the oldest existing manufacturer of mechanical movements for grandfather, wall and table clocks in the world. Since 1917, the company has been located in Aldingen, a charming community between the Black Forest and the Swabian Alb.All Kieninger Clock Parts. Browse through our Kieninger clock parts for your clock repair needs. Sort by. Show. 24. 36. 48. View as. $15.92 Kieninger.Kieninger & Obergfell (Kundo) midget 400-day clock #2, made in West Germany ca. 1976. Horolovar plate #1381. Purchased for $25 from Robert Stark, Riverside, CA, in Spring 1990.A quite beautiful example of a Kreigsmarine ships clock by Kieninger & Obergfell. Standard on all Kriegsmarine vessels, including U Boats, these clocks have a brass case, originally painted black but most usually, as is the case here, with the paint later removed for appearance purposes. Serviced in 2020 the clock runs well and keeps good time but …VTG Kundo Kieninger and Obergfell Clock w/ Key & Glass Dome H12xD8”West Germany PhilaHomeStore 5 out of 5 stars. Ships from Pennsylvania. Arrives soon! Get it by Feb 12-17 if you order today. Feb 12-17Welby (Kundo Kieninger/Ober. gfell) 400 Day/Anniversar. y Clock, Standard, 12" Size! US $16.94Expedited Shipping. See details. Seller does not accept returns. See details. Special financing available. See terms and apply now.Kundo Kieninger & Obergfell Germany Anniversary Clock. US $15.85Expedited Shipping. See details. Seller does not accept returns. See details. Special financing available. See terms and apply now. Earn up to 5x points when you use your eBay Mastercard®.DIAL MOON ARCH KIENINGER CALENDAR FANCY Solid brass heavy Kieninger calendar dial. Silver moon dial. Gold-Brass chapter ring with gold roman numerals. 2nd hand ring and minute ring. Selectors: Right - Whitt, St. Mich, Westm, Silent... Nel 2012 la Kieninger Uhren Fabrik festeggia il suo 100° anniversario. Kieninger è stata fondata nel 1912 da Joseph Kieninger nella Foresta Nera, il che la rende la più antica azienda produttrice al mondo di movimenti meccanici per orologi a pendolo, da parete e da tavolo. ….

Kieninger & Obergfell German Regency Brass Mantel Clock (39) $ 3,600.00. Add to Favorites Vintage Kundo Kieninger Obergfell Glass Dome Clock (183) $ 89.00. Add to Favorites Metamec Quartz Mantel Table Clock Made in England - Brushed Brass - …Kieninger Clock Repair Center. We are the factory authorized service center for Kieninger clocks in our service areas for North America. In 2012, the Kieninger Clock Factory celebrated it’s 100th anniversary. The Kieninger Clock Company was founded in 1912 in the Black Forest by Joseph Kieninger and therefore is the oldest existing ...AMP: Get the latest Ameriprise Financial stock price and detailed information including AMP news, historical charts and realtime prices. Indices Commodities Currencies StocksA Welby anniversary clock. This glass-domed anniversary clock by Kieninger & Obergfell features a gold toned round face with white roman numerals and black hands. The pendulum and base are made of polished brass. It is etched to the backside, “Kieninger & Obergfell / Made in Germany/(0) jewels inadjusted.’Kieninger Charleston 2547-22-01 Weight Regulator Wall Clock, Calendar, Moonphase, Gong Strike, Walnut Wall Clock / Regulator $6,581.00 USD $9,401.00 USD You Save: $2,820.00 USD (29%)Kieninger & Obergfell Kundo Diamond Dial Anniversary Clock. US $20.70Expedited Shipping. See details. Seller does not accept returns. See details. Special financing available. See terms and apply now. Earn up to 5x points when you use your eBay Mastercard®. Learn more.Ticken des Laufwerkes einer Kriegsmarine Borduhr Kieninger & Obergfell aus dem 2. Weltkrieg.VINTAGE KIENINGER & OBERGFELL KUNDO 400 DAY ANNIVERSARY TABLE CLOCK 11" TALL. “See Condition Below.”. Free collection in person from Sarasota, Florida, United States. See details. US $50.00 (approx £39.67)Expedited Delivery. See details. No returns accepted.Kieninger Obergfell - Etsy. (1 - 22 of 22 results) Show Digital Downloads. Sort by: Relevancy. Vintage Kieninger & Obergfell Kundo Electromagnetic Mantle Clock 4 3/8" …Jun 30, 2022 · 魅力的な置時計を世界に発信するドイツの老舗クロックメーカー「キニンガー（Kieninger）」。 この記事ではキニンガーの置時計の特徴や魅力をはじめ、おすすめの置時計を紹介します。キニンガーの置時計に興味のある方はぜひご覧ください。 Kieninger & obergfell, KIENINGER & OBERGFELL navy-wall clock No. 12302, Germany around 1940, round stepped brass case dent, chrome-plated, glazed hinge bezel, silvered dial patinated/spotty with military engraving, Arabic n. See Sold Price. Sold. 2018. VINTAGE KUNDO KIENINGER OBERGFELL MANTEL CLOCK., KUNDO KIENINGER & OBERGFELL MINI ANNIVERSARY CLOCK RARE GERMAN 1950’s MCM VTG. $18.50. + $10.42 shipping. KUNDO, KIENINGER & OBERGFELL 400 DAY ANNIVERSARY CLOCK in Original Box. + $21.20 shipping. SAVE UP TO 20% See all eligible items and terms., MS – MSU Series Kieninger Clock Movement. This high quality German Kieninger movement comes already lubricated by the factory with the best grade clock oil. The movement includes its cables, leader, suspension spring and hand nut. Kieninger Clock Movement - Replace instead of repair. A fraction of the price, lasts longer, ships now., 16. 7.8K views 12 years ago. The Motor of my "Kieninger and Obergfell" electro-mechanical clock had one (or more) open circuits, so I had to rewind the drive and the sensor coils to …, Kundo is a trademark name of Kieninger & Obergfell, a German clock manufacturer. The Kundo 400 Day Clock is a torsion pendulum clock. It is called an anniversary clock as a suggestion that you choose a …, Kieninger impressive floor clock exclusive walnut case 3 chimes 12 rod-gong 0117-82-01. from 9.050,00 EUR. Exclusive Kieninger Walnut Longcase Clock with Silver-plated Calendar Dial. from 8.815,00 EUR. Kieninger floor clock representative oak moon dial 3 chime son 12-rod gong 0128-11-01. from 5.280,00 EUR., A Brief history of the Kieninger Clock Company as told by the great granddaughter of Joseph Kieninger. Translated from the German so is is a bit rough in spots: When Joseph Kieninger made the first..., Certified Kieninger online shop - Convincing services for your purchase. In 2012, the Kieninger watch factory celebrates its 100th anniversary. Kieninger was founded in 1912 by Joseph Kieninger in the Black Forest, making it the oldest existing manufacturer of mechanical movements for grandfather, wall and table clocks in the world., Nov 8, 2014 ... Ebay: time-wised Etsy: HighQualityClocks Email: [email protected] Kieninger Obergfell Clock Vintage Anniversary Glass dome Germany ..., My 10th edition shows Oct 1962 as being between the 4th and 5th editions. At any rate, having the most recent edition is most helpful. In the newest guide, there is a plate 1388A which does show a sample serial number. John Hubby in this post 10 years ago suggests that your clock is among the first grouping of Kieninger & Obergfell clocks., A Brief history of the Kieninger Clock Company as told by the great granddaughter of Joseph Kieninger. Translated from the German so is is a bit rough in spots: When Joseph Kieninger made the first..., Vintage Kieninger & Obergfell Kundo Electromagnetic Mantle Clock 4 3/8" Wide, See Description for condition (73) $ 175.00. Add to Favorites Vintage Wilmac Glass Dome Clock Made In Germany, Mid Century German Anniversary Mantel Clock, Untested Clock Not Working, Accent Piece #0955 (338) $ ..., Badplanung mit Erfahrung und CAD. Wir machen Ihr Traumbad wahr. Raum und Licht, Wärme und Behaglichkeit – mit geübtem Auge und erfahrenem Blick entwickeln wir mit Ihnen gemeinsam das Bad Ihrer Träume. Die Installationsarbeiten erledigen wir dann ohne Ihre Hilfe 😉. Strom und Wärmegewinnung im großen Stil: Fa., Kieninger clocks design-cube black/chrom triple chime Tourbillon 1266-96-04. 8.109,00 EUR. TOP. Small Kieninger regulator miniature monthly Micronis sanding lacquer red. 4.696,00 EUR. Exclusive Kieninger clock: Service from the Kieninger company Purchase on account Very good ratings Quality since 1912. , Updated June 2021 - Added Junghans Motor Circuit. Main Index Clocks Index. Kundo Battery Clocks. This was the first article in the horology section of the ESP site, …, Amps do not contain any volts. Volts and amps are two different types of electrical properties, and one does not contain the other. A relationship does exist between volts and amps..., Bodega Kieninger. The visit involves a walk through the vineyard with information about our form to cultivate the wine plants and the land. After this we visit the elaboration area and the wine cellar where we explain the wine making process. Finally you can taste 4 different types of our wines served with bread, sausage and cheese., Kieninger & Obergfell (Kundo) midget 400-day clock, made in Germany ca. 1965. Horolovar plate #1407H. I don't recall where or when I acquired this clock., DIAL MOON ARCH KIENINGER CALENDAR FANCY Solid brass heavy Kieninger calendar dial. Silver moon dial. Gold-Brass chapter ring with gold roman numerals. 2nd hand ring and minute ring. Selectors: Right - Whitt, St. Mich, Westm, Silent... , Kunde, Kieninger & Obergfell 400 Day Anniversary Clock -Brass And Glass. More Items From eBay. Skeleton Cage, Halloween Prop/Props Decoration, New. Spode Christmas Tree Sugar Bowl Ornament Nib. UNITED Cutlery UC485 TOTAL RECALL Dagger Fighting KNIFE. 10pc LOT OF LAS VEGAS, NEVADA $1 CASINO CHIPS., hi , do any one know of a sorce for parts for a kieninger and obergfell battery movement also how do you tell if the coil is bad? i would post a picture of this movement if i knew how. thanks billie ray . r. rl registered user. mar 28, …, 400 days well working clock 1950s-1960s BUK, clock's manufacturer is Kieninger & Obergfell (16) $ 335.35. Add to Favorites Quaint Kundo German 400-Day Torsion Clock German Anniversary Clock – Vintage Clock (15) $ 130.67. FREE shipping Add to …, VINTAGE KUNDO KIENINGER & OBERGFELL Anniversary Clock With Key (Needs Adjusted) Opens in a new window or tab. Pre-Owned. $89.95. b7b777 (1,788) 100%. or Best Offer +$43.95 shipping. New Listing Vintage Kundo 400 Day Anniversary Clock WORKING, No Dome. Opens in a new window or tab. Pre-Owned. $40.00., Kieninger impressive floor clock exclusive walnut case 3 chimes 12 rod-gong 0117-82-01. from 9.050,00 EUR. Exclusive Kieninger Walnut Longcase Clock with Silver-plated Calendar Dial. from 8.815,00 EUR. Kieninger floor clock representative oak moon dial 3 chime son 12-rod gong 0128-11-01. from 5.280,00 EUR., KIENINGER | MURAKI CLOCK GALLERY. 最も高い品質とユニークな設計をされたモデル「キニンガー Kieninger」. キニンガーは1912年の誕生以来、メカニカルクロックの先駆者として毎年、様々な魅力あるコレクションを世界に発信しています。. 1991年に新たに構成された4万 ..., AMP Robotics, a company developing AI-powered robots that sort recyclable materials, has raised $91 million in a corporate equity round. AMP Robotics, a Denver, Colorado-based star..., Kundo Electronic Clock Suspension Spring Kieninger and Obergfell NEW Part. Opens in a new window or tab. Brand New. C $34.24. Top Rated Seller Top Rated Seller. Buy It Now. timexpert1 (47,188) 99.9% timexpert1 (47,188) 99.9% …, 本公司成立於 1972 年，49 年的專業經驗，進口世界各國名牌老爺鐘, 座鐘, 掛鐘, 造型鐘:美國 Howard Miller德國 Kieninger, Hermle, Erwin Sattler,AMS, Hubert Herr英國 Comitti of London瑞士 Swiza, Matthew NormaN, Eluxa品牌、等級、款式、尺寸、造型最豐富、最完全,專營批發、零售、保養、維修， 歡迎蒞臨參觀。, View this item and discover similar for sale at 1stDibs - A stunning Kieninger & Obergfell brass mantel clock of epic proportions. This breathtaking clock is stamped: 'Kieninger & Obergfell made in West Germany, Modernist Desk World Clock Elgin Kieninger & Obergfell West Germany -For Parts-. Parts Only. C $176.68. nicks_nice_things (2,211) 99.2%. Buy It Now. from United States. Vintage Kundo Anniversary Brass Clock Made Germany Kieninger & …, The Kundo Anniversary 400 Day Clock, made by German manufacturer Kieninger & Obergfell, was originally produced in 1923. The word anniversary symbolizes the idea that the clocks only need to be wound once a year on a meaningful date, such as the date you received the clock., May 25, 2016 ... Vintage anniversary clock made in West-Germany covered with a glass dome and comes with a key. It's working great and is in super condition ..., KurtinSA. You generally need the Repair Guide written by Terwilliger to identify the plate/clock. The guide suggests that it is plate 1375 and takes a 0.0032" suspension spring if needed. As for blocks, they're not all the same width/dimensions, plus some have a taper pin in them and some don't.